In this episode I speak with Jared about his journey, his why, and things he did to grow through the process.
Hey what's up, gentlemen, this is Rising Phoenix podcast podcast about how to rise up after divorce. I'm your host divorce coach, Michael Rhodes. Let's get into
Joining me today is Jared, Jared, let's jump right into it. Want to tell us a little bit about yourself and your divorce journey? How long ago did it start? How long were you married, all that kind of good shit.
So I'm Jared sharp. I'm from southeast Idaho. I've got four kids from my marriage. And I was married for six years. And yeah, it ended abruptly and I got blindsided.
My journey COVID, August 13, of 21. And I was officially divorced January 5 of 22. So, like I said, I got blindsided by the whole thing. She came home from work on the 13th. And I could tell something was off. And so I came out and talk to her. And I'm like, Well, what's going on? And I don't know how to start, like, well just start at the beginning. And she just I want to divorce. One, okay. And, of course, I was distraught. I ended up sleeping in my truck at my brother's backyard that night, to get away. And I had a family reunion the next day as well. Oh, horrible reunion for me.
Yeah, I can imagine. So what I mean, after that sort of initial shock, or I guess in that initial shock, or what what was your mental state? You said you, you kind of left slept in a truck? Like what? How were you for the next couple of weeks, two months? Like, what where was your head at?
So the first day I was in, fix it mode, what can I do to help this I brought up counseling and all that, and I got shot down. And then I got super depressed, I started having panic attacks, which I'd never dealt with before. Just trying to pick out a shirt for my boy, I ended up wandering around Walmart for 30 minutes leaving on my cart, try not to pass out. And, you know, I accidentally got drunk one time, and realized, Oh, this is a very slippery slope for me. And so that was my first major hurdle is trying to take care of an alcohol addiction. But I've never had that issue before.
Oh, so did you lean on drinking pretty heavily in the beginning, then? Or did you have one incident and you're like, I can't, I gotta, I gotta avoid this.
I had one incident with it. It was after I dropped off the kids at her house, I went to the bar. And there were a bunch of people that knew me there and knew what was going on. So everyone started buying me drinks. And she ended up asking to come pick me up and take me home that night. Oh, shit. Oh, it was very rough. And for me, it's knowing my mindset and how I work. And so where it scared the shit out of me. I put my whiskey on my woodstove where I could see it every morning. And I proved that my mind is stronger than my addiction. And I control it. It does not control me. Like that. And so I went cold turkey for three months.
Nice. Man, there's some stuff there. I'm gonna I'm gonna dig into later but the self awareness is pretty awesome. Did you did you? How long so did she move out? Did you move out? Like what? What was the How to what was that scenario? How did that play out?
So two days after she left, I confront her at work, because she always tried to avoid the conversation. And a little bit background on her. She has BPD which is borderline personality disorder. Three weeks prior, we had a serious suicide attempt from her as well. So there's a whole nother thing I could get into. Yeah, but when I confront her, I told her I'm like, okay, so I see it one of two ways. Either you're trying to push me away so you don't feel as guilty often yourself, or you're screwing somebody. And by the look she gave me I asked her All right, who you screw on. And so she'd been cheating on me. She started cheating on me the day before we left for our anniversary trip. Which that was the same weekend she had her suicide attempt.
A lot of guilt there on her part done, I guess
Yep. And as soon as I found out, she was cheating on me, I told her she'd never sleep in my house again. And she went got a hotel room with her boyfriend, and I've been in the house ever since.
So she left the kids and I'm guessing. Yes. And then, so Did you file that she followed? What? Take me through that scenario? So So you know, she's in the the hotel or whatever. So she's gone. What's the next step down? Did you do anything legally?
I tried to do a protective order in September. I started the process in August, and was trying to get that because I was in fear for my kids due to her mental condition. That makes sense. And I got stumped in court on that one, because she hadn't directly threatened anybody in 60 days. So they said it doesn't matter. Interesting.
So, so the protection order didn't go through. No. Okay. So then when what was your next step, then did you? Did you file for custody file for divorce? Like, what did you have to do any of that kind of stuff.
I kept trying to fix things for another couple of months, I was so wrapped up in my grief. I couldn't see the forest through the trees. I just, this is the person I love. I don't know what I've done wrong. I don't know how to fix this. And I continued to try and fix it until November 4 of 21. What happened? My boy had a appointment, I appointment and he was very sick 103 degree temperature. And she took him down to this appointment anyway. And he wasn't able to get it done, because I was stuck at work. And so they denied him. And we got his medication ordered back in Preston, which is about three hour drive. And instead of bringing him right back to get his medicine, she went and screwed around in Lewiston for a while and tried dragging him to a park and all that glitch. That was the point where I hit okay. I'm all in now. It's on.
Do you think she was just fucking incompetent? Or just just out of her mind? Like what what would lead a person to not tend to a kid with 103 degree fever? No and your opinion?
I think she was trying to prove that she's the fun parent. And look how much fun we can have together. And then his medicine was ordered at 10am. She didn't get back till town till 7pm That night, where we could actually get him his medicine. And that was the breaking point for me of yep, I want this to. I'm done.
Yeah, so it was almost like a defense mechanism for your kid at that point.
Yep. That helped me snap out of my depressive state and get into my pissed off shit needs to be done.
And, gosh, take me through that. Was that like a lightning quick decision? Was that like, did you struggle after like, I don't know, or were you just like, nope, fuck, this is it. I'm good. This is gonna happen. Now.
I had my moments of doubt. But generally, it was a quick switch. Because that's also my self awareness. I get depressed first. But once I hit the pissed off stage, that's when things are getting done.
I like it. Okay, so So then at that point you filed for divorce and custody or what, what? What were your next steps?
So I started hunting around for a lawyer. What's that time, divorce rates had spiked because of the pandemic and all that. So it was hard for me to get a hold of a lawyer. And so go forward to December 3 of 21 is the day that she was actually served with papers. And she showed up against our custody agreement we had between ourselves and was just taking my kids anyway. But he forgot that my twins were in school. And so my mom, they were over there at the time she called let me know what was going on. So I took off work early, and I was waiting for at the house. got somebody that could come and serve her paperwork, and we just sat and waited for and when she got to the house she just blew in to the door, grabbed my twins by the hands and tried taking them out and was just screaming at me the entire time. And I blocked the door. I wouldn't let Leave with my kids. And she started to accuse me of trying to kidnapper and all this shit. I'm like, No, you're welcome to leave just not with my kids. And it got to the point where I called the police. And as I'm on the phone with the police, she's screaming at me the entire time to the point the dispatcher told me to tell her to shut the hell up, because she can't hear me.
So that I mean, I laughed button for it wasn't funny at the time. But that had to help your your cause, right, like, clearly, because there's I think there's this this, I think it's a bit of a myth, although there are, obviously are some truths in it. But when you involve the law, or the courts, man automatically gets screwed. Like, it doesn't matter. And so, in this case that had to whether or not that's true or not, I don't think it is, but but let's put that to the side. When she's screaming and yelling and acting like a fucking maniac that has to help you did. Did you did the cops notice that she behaved that same way once they got there was there? How was their demeanor when they arrived?
The problem is, I'm from a small town, and the responding officer was her childhood friend. So I ended up getting kind of screwed on that. So I had this guy server with the paperwork in front of the cop. And the cop flat out lied in his police report. And oh, he just mentioned to me that he had her serve that day. Hmm. And then when it came to court stuff, I was trying to get body cam footage and all that, and they deleted everything. Sons of bitches. So that ended up being an uphill battle for me, but I still had the dispatch recording of her screaming at me.
There you go. Okay. All right. So we're probably getting ahead of ourselves here. I'm probably getting us ahead of ourselves. Okay, so did we're okay, so were you arrested for that incident? Or what happened? Did she was she able to take the kids like, what happened at that?
So legally, they couldn't do anything against me, because there were no legal grounds for her to take the kids where there wasn't an official custody agreement with the courts. Make sense? But because I don't want my kids separated from each other. I let her take the twins, because she already had the youngest two. Gotcha. And so we met, my mom played mediator on that. And okay, she called her since she was pissed off at me. And we came to an agreement. And so for the next month, I started playing very nice where I had served her with paperwork, not create waves, let her get complacent. As I started viewing it as a chess match. She isn't my enemy, but she is my opponent.
Oh, I love that. Oh, man, that's awesome.
The other thing that I loved about it is my ex wife didn't know how to play chess.
Well, I mean, and we'll get to that. I think we'll see that so. So then did you file for custody at that point, like, immediately after he said, you sort of kind of played the game? Did you wait, like, how did you eventually file for custody?
So the custody was all in my divorce paperwork, I had all that pulled out and gave it to her at the same time. I spent two weeks using Google going through it with a fine tooth comb. I had all the schedule and everything figured out. And I still don't have a lawyer at this point. I had one scheduled and my appointment with him was a week after I had her served with paperwork. And when she left, she made the mistake of leaving 20 years of psychiatric paperwork in my house.
So you know, I have
yep, I played it. Very nice. I when I finally got into my lawyer, I brought him everything. And okay, I've got this and this and my state, you can legally record with a one consenting party. Interesting. As long as it's not somewhere expected to be private. Gotcha. So that so I was recording. I was recording everything. And by the time I got to my lawyer, my lawyer is like, Who do you have helped you? This it's actually very well thought out and in depth. Like me, I'm pissed off so I'm figuring shit out as I go along. And I'm reading up on everything
wet so is your mental state at this point, mostly pissed off and focused or I'm sure you probably had other you know, the roller coaster I'm sure didn't stop but was that your main emotional state was anger.
My main one was determination. My role model through the thing was Spock, it's my inner nerd coming out. Back relies mostly on logic, but he does have emotion. Sure, and my kids can afford me being emotional at the time. And so I relied mostly on logic. When I was by myself, I had my moments of doubt where I broke down and I was crying really bad. And, you know, still suffering the panic attacks and, and, but the depressive states got less and less, I started relying on my anger a bit more, and using it in a constructive way.
Yeah, I always say anger can be good if you use it as a fuel. Otherwise, it's a waste. So it sounds like you did that. Which is awesome. During those moments of those like those lols, those, those dips in the roller coaster Did you reach out? Or what did you kind of keep to yourself and try and deal with all the pain and the sadness by yourself?
I tried to keep to myself, it would hit points where I would be stuck in bed for a while. And so I started setting myself a daily goal. When I was struggling to get out of bed. Like, today, I'm gonna put my socks away. And sometimes that's all I accomplished that day is all right, I got my socks done. I hit my goal. I can be content.
Nice. That's smart, man. I mean, that's, that speaks to your perseverance for sure. More. So what I mean, where did where did? Where does that come from? Where do you think that you have you always sort of been a resourceful, resilient kind of guy. Is that just who you are? Or is that something? You were like? I gotta do. I gotta do this. I gotta figure this out.
It was, I gotta figure it out. And so I was trying different methods. And that was the one that worked the best for me.
Yeah. Amen. i That's one of the things I teach. It's the I don't because I don't think they're, I mean, there's certain universal truths and whatnot, but I think everyone's different. So something, you know, that worked for me might not work for you, and vice versa. So man, I love your mindset there. Okay, so, so you eventually so what was the custody at that point? What How much do you have and how much? Yeah.
So at that point, she was taking them every other weekend, from Friday through Sunday. Okay.
And what was that what was was in the agreement, or is that what you guys agreed to? Or arminas? That was divorced. Okay. And when you because you had had the he said it was an all in the paperwork already? What did you have in that paperwork in terms of custody? Is that was that what you had at that point to
know, so a week before I had her served with paperwork, she blew up on man tried taking the kids couple days early for her weekend. Well, technically, your weekend starts on Thursday. So and the weekends technically don't start till Saturday, and it was a whole fight. And she threw a big stink about it. So I put in the paperwork. Okay. You say weekends, don't start till Saturday morning. So that's why I put in the paperwork. So because she made mad, she lost herself some more time to.
So okay, and so eventually, you go to court, and you you win, right? Isn't that essentially what happened?
Yeah. So I gave her an extra two weeks to do her paperwork and whatnot. And she never replied to me. And so I ended up winning by default. I did my default paperwork. And so I was officially divorced January 5 of 22. By default,
holy shit, I was pretty quick on.
When I get determined, I make sure I get things done.
I like it. Okay, so if I remember, I don't want to jump ahead, but I just popped in my head. Didn't she try to go back to court to know the divorce essentially?
Yeah. And that started two months after that.
So two months later, she decides now did she do this? Because she didn't like the custody terms. It sounds like where you're at custody and divorce is all kind of wrapped up into one. Is that one of the case? Yeah. Okay.
Her mom was the driving force on a lot of things for her to try and get more custody and she was the one funding my ex wife.
I see. And I was trying to do it all on my own. Sure. And so, so she, she two months later, she tries to get it changed and she was shot down, correct.
It took another three months after that. Okay. So all of a sudden, I'm getting emails from my lawyer that, oh, hey, they're filing this motion and this motion to try and unfold the divorce. And then she had To me her own paperwork. That's what the custody is gonna look like and all that, right and tried serving me with divorce papers at the same time.
She doesn't No offense, but she doesn't sound too bright.
It helps having a dumb opponent. Wisdom has always chased her, but she has always been quicker.
Oh, buddy, there's some there's some lines that are gonna come out of this one. I love that one. Okay, so at what point? Did you start sort of it? Maybe it didn't? Maybe you did it sort of at the same time. But what did when did you sort of focused on your mental health and trying to to get away from the term illegal once once the things are finalized, so to speak? Like, what was your maybe that's the question, what was your mental state then? And or what? Yeah. When did you sort of start focusing in on permitting? Again, maybe you're doing at the same time, your mental health.
I was doing it a little bit the same time. But after the official divorce date is when I really started. It was then I actually found your discord. And I was in the discord meeting three days after. And that was my first meeting. Oh, no shit. Everything was all right in line together with everything.
Yeah, no funny, or you don't I don't know, if you mind. But just just a little side here. Like, that speaks to all things happen for a reason. There's perhaps a higher power to you. I know a little bit about you. And I don't I don't want to say anything that you don't want to say. So I'll let you speak for yourself. But is that was there any kind of that in your journey? Do you lean on a faith? Did you did you use that as sort of a guide or didn't bring you hope any of those kinds of things?
No, for me, I mostly listen to music. And, you know, I was at a point where I was avoiding things that really set me off. But the one song that was my mantra for the previous six months was from Trolls. He knocked me over Bible always get back up again. And so I listen to that one pretty religiously through everything of yeah, I've been knocked down ball always get back up.
Was that something? Again, I think that's sort of essence early. But was that a part of you always that mentality? Or do you think you developed it along this journey?
I think I developed it as I went along. And then while the other things I was doing through the process was reprogramming my brain?
How did we do that
I used to be a bit pessimistic. And now in the group, I'm more known as the silver lining sky. And so the example I always use is I went over the canyon to see my buddy one day. And as I'm driving through the canyon, I lose radio signal. So it's dead silent in my truck. Course I turned talk to my wife, and she isn't there. But for about five minutes, it set me off. But this was the turning point for me, where I really started focusing on my silver linings. And I always tell people, it doesn't matter how small and stupid the silver lining is, you can always find some truth. The one I got out of that one is, well, I don't have to haul her fat ass around anymore. And I'm saving that much in fuel. Horrible silver lining, but I found it.
I love I love it. Well, it speaks to doing the work, right? Because you could have just spiraled and then you know, come out of that situation or that that moment, and just been like completely depressed or angry or whatever. But you did the work the mental work of like, okay, how can I find the positive in this? I mean, that's just so important.
For me, it's a way of reprogramming my brain is now I find silver lining so easy, huh? I, in a way, I had to kill who I was. Because the old may but the mindset I had, I was not going to survive this. And so for lack of a better term, I had to commit mental suicide and start at my base.
I mean, did you lean on any books, podcasts? People? Instagram followers, right.
I had my aunt, my brother, who have both been divorced. I listened to a few podcasts and I read no more Mr. Nice Guy.
There you go. Okay.
And so I had the whole identity crisis of I don't know who I am anymore. I just essentially this dried my mind. And so I started viewing it like a pyramid. Alright, this is my core belief is my family. So that's part of my building block. And I slowly built it up from there. And as I was going through my day, I figured something out and Oh, shit, there's Jared, again, that's part of me, that's going in my building block. And so I had to completely reinvent myself.
Is there? How hard was that? Like? What? How would you describe that that task or that, that mission,
it takes a long time, it was very difficult. The beginning steps of doing it that way, were painful. And it's not easy to do. And so that's what I found is focus on four core beliefs of who you are as a person and what you absolutely believe in. And that's your focus. And as you go about your day, you're gonna start start finding more, and you can start building your identity again of who you are.
What in the what was your why, like, I think this is always important to have sort of a larger why? Because Because journeys like these are they're not easy, obviously. Right? This podcast is littered with these stories of people that do rebuild themselves and build back up that create new versions of themselves Phoenix's if you will. But there's some times where it's like, Fuck this, this is hard. I don't want to do this anymore, or this isn't working or whatever. And it's important, I think, to have a why, like, why am I doing this to remind yourself? What was your why? What was your motivator when you had those down moments?
My motivation was my kids, amen. They were already having abandonment issues with their mother leaving. And I wasn't going to make them go through more. I decided then in there, I'm going to be the best father I can be. And so they were my focus through it all. Because it would be unfair of me to not take care of myself. And that was my main motivator to really improve my mental health is to help my kids, because if I'm incapable I can't help them.
Amen. Jesus, man. So I mean, I'm sure we'll get to touch on some of the things but where are you now? Like, how do you feel now about where you're at in life? You know, what, what? What's your mental your state of, of mental health currently?
I'm doing awesome. I still have my random, depressed, but sure. They're very small and insignificant anymore. And it still continues to grow. Like last week, I just noticed, I whistle again, when I'm just going about things which I haven't done that in a long time. I caught myself doing it well work last week, and Oh, shit. There's some more me, all right. It's nice. In a way the journey never ends, I can continue to be building myself up and finding more and more of me, and I'm becoming happier because of it.
Oh, 100%. I know, we haven't really touched on this. But you you do lead meetings on Friday nights. And I'm thankful for you for doing that. How do you think that has helped? Or what has that done for you during this journey?
I have noticed I've progressed a lot. Not just my mental state, but as a person. And because that's one thing I do have to thank my ex wife on is, if she hadn't done this to me, I wouldn't be able to help as many people as I have helped. And so I love the opportunity, being able to use my experiences, and turn it into a positive. Yeah, I got screwed. But now I can help this guy out who may not have any other resource, but I'm able to be there now.
Yeah, it's such an important part of the journey. What do you think? And I promised myself I was going to quit bitching about this and I am going to I'm not it's not a bitching question. It's just to Why do you think other men? I don't know what the answer to this is, if there is one even but why do you think other men don't lean on that as well? Maybe Maybe they're not ready? Or maybe it's just too hard. But why do you think it's so rewarding to give back? You know that I know that but why do you think other men don't do that?
Well, even though I think a lot of it is they still have that stigma in the back of their mind of we're supposed to be men. We're supposed to be strong. It's hard to share feelings. And also sometimes once you get better, you try and stay away from it so you don't accidentally go down that rabbit hole again, and ended up in the same state of mind.
Yeah, and I agree, but I think it makes you stronger when you do, right when you revisit those moments and you're able to dig yourself out again, it just makes you so much stronger. And it allows you to develop tools to handle so so if you're, you've developed these tools to dig yourself out of these holes, you're going to be better off when other things in life hit you because things are gonna hit you right you're gonna fuckin flat tire fucking engine blows up fucking fire, but whatever, right, you're gonna, you're gonna have moments you're gonna have shit just because that's what life's about. But I mean, not saying it's all shit, but but she's just gonna come in the fact that you're able to lean on these things that you've learned. I just think it makes you a better man. All in all.
Oh, yeah. Well, and anymore my way I do it as I do it by exposure therapy. Hmm. So like, there were some songs. You know, I tried for a long time to avoid things that would set me off. Sure. But I realized that when those depressive states hit, they were a lot lower. Yeah. And so I Alright, I'm gonna try something new. And I tried exposure therapy. There was one time the song came on the radio that my ex walked down the aisle to. And it threw me through a loop for about two days. And that was why I decided to try the exposure therapy. I listened to that song on repeat for a day, till I became desensitized to it. And it doesn't bother me anymore. I rock out to it now.
Well, that's awesome. I mean, again, how did you how did you stumble upon that, where you're just like, this is something I don't I don't want to be like this. I don't want this song, or this memory to control me. But how do you how did you stumble on that? That, Okay, fuck it. You know, that mentality of I'm gonna, I'm gonna take this head on. But then how did you come across exposure therapy or that sort of methodology.
So I tried the avoidance way. And I, I did that for about six months. And I realized I wasn't getting better. And so I need to try something else. So I'm gonna go the exact opposite, and see what happens. And don't get me wrong. The first few times listening to that song killed me. Yeah. But I eventually got out of it. And I started dating myself. I would take myself out, I call it master dating. So I wouldn't recommend going to a movie for your first master date. That is hard to do. But I started going and doing things that I wasn't allowed to do, or she didn't want to do. And so I have a favorite restaurant, that is my go to anymore that we never went to. And I own sitting by myself, I put my phone on, I watch a movie, and I have an awesome dinner. And I enjoy myself. I take myself out to an arcade, I go throw hatchets, I have a fire. And so every weekend, I don't have my kids, I date myself now. And it's teaching you to give yourself grace and love yourself and not stay in the slumps.
Is there anything that you learned through this that you'll you know, should another one come along another relationship? Is there anything that you've learned that you will, you'll either look out for or apply to the next one?
So we have our red flags that are me, I was in this state of mind, and I'm starting to realize what was happening to me in this relationship. So this thing here, I'm not going to allow it to happen to me again. And I have the subconscious behavior of backing down because I don't want to fight. I'm good at it. But I try to avoid it. Sure. And this comes into the self aware aspect of things. When I'm backing down, I have the unconscious behavior. I look down and left. And so I tattooed a Jekyll and Hyde tattoo on my left forearm. That way I look down and left. I see my Jekyll and Hyde tattoo. And I know I'm doing again I'm being Dr. Jekyll right now it's time for Mr. Hyde to come out. I'm not going to allow this shit to happen to me anymore.
That's some product found shit there my friend. I mean, would you say I mean you kind of said it already. But I mean you're you're a completely new man. Would you say?
Oh, yes. 100%
And it didn't come by easily right. You didn't. You didn't stumble upon it. You put in a lot work.
No, this is I'm 18 months out now. Somewhere in there and I I discovered a lot along the way and I still discover stuff. And the more I discover, the better I become.
Man, I gotta tell you, man, I love your story. I love your outlook. I love your drive your passion for self awareness or, or challenging yourself or pushing yourself mentally. It's It's fucking admirable man. And well, I think I mean, we could touch on a couple of other things. But But I think, like, we got a good bit out of this one. And so, I mean, obviously, life will go on. And hopefully I can, we'll you know, we'll bring you back. So, so let's, let's wrap this one up. And let's ask the last question that I asked everybody, which is, what words of wisdom would you impart to a man who's just starting his divorce journey?
I would say, don't be afraid to show your emotion. There is no shame in it. I had a hard time crying in front of people. But it is so empowering to yourself to be able to do that. And there is no shame in getting help, either. And give yourself grace on it.
Amen. Brother, I want to thank you for doing this. Delta feels short, but but I think it hit so many positive notes that I think I think it's it's enough to wrap up with. You're gonna continue, I hope to lead the Friday night meetings. If that's the case, I'll go ahead and make that public announcement.
Yep, that's still my plan. And so yeah, so Friday
nights in OUR DISCORD SERVER. Jared will lead meetings, I think we're looking at maybe changing it to 9pm. Eastern on Friday nights. Is that I think that's what we touched on last time.
Yeah, that should be fine with me. I'm open on Friday. So
awesome. So if anybody wants to join the discord, I this, the discord is now a more paying members. Not too much controversy has come from that but a little bit, but I think for me, it was necessary. And I think it certainly this podcast and that server are worth $5 a month. So that said, if you are really struggling and you don't have a pot to piss in, just send me a message and we'll work it out. It really isn't about the money. I'm just trying to ensure, amongst other things that I surround myself with people that really are committed to doing things like Jared just described, because a lot of times in charity could probably speak to this, we see guys that come in and just don't want to do the work and just expect some kind of quick fix or just just completely lean on anger. And I want to sort of make sure I'm surrounding myself with those that really, really want to grow from this shitshow that we didn't ask for.
And I would say that all of your emotions can be very helpful if guided in the right direction. Like I had to learn how to curve my anger to where it helped me and even my depressive moments. They were teaching moments that helped me get to where I have now.
Amen. Thanks, brother. I appreciate you doing this and we'll be seeing you on Friday nights in the discord.
Alright, sounds good. See you later.
Take care. Thank you so much for watching and or listening. Since my separation in July of 2019 I have done an incredible amount of work on myself. I've had many different therapists, life coaches and went through different programs. I've taken all that I've learned and put it into my own program called forged by fire. If you are interested in having me help you navigate your divorce, please visit my website Rising Phoenix divorce coach.com I look forward to working
Transcribed by https://otter.ai