Episode 127 – Thanksgiving Discord Members Meeting – Part 2

This is the second meeting that took place on Thanksgiving.  It is similar to the 1st but there is also some talk about podcast numbers and a celebration of the 3rd birthday of Rising Phoenix Podcast.

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Michael 0:00
Hey what's up, gentlemen, this is Rising Phoenix podcast podcast about how to rise up after divorce. I'm your host, divorce coach, Michael Rhodes. Let's get into it. Hello, and welcome to the show. This is episode 127. This is essentially part two of 126. It's a continuation, or the second part, the second meeting that took place on Thanksgiving day. You know, I said in 126, that it was a little bit different tone is pretty similar. In terms of, it's just the guys kind of talking about what we've been through and what we're going through and all those kinds of things. It's gonna sound a bit choppy in pieces, because there was a particular gentleman who he didn't want his story out there. So I had to edit his out, which is fine. But that made it a little bit choppy, because he would interject with his story, and that would, if you that would cause the flow to go one way. And taking those pieces out, there are certain sections, where it's, it just sounds like, like it changes out of left field, but it's just because his content had to be pulled out. So the only difference that I thought was gonna be much different than then 126. But it's pretty similar. The only real differences, there's a chunk of time, about maybe three quarters of the way through, where we talk about podcast debts, I wanted to do that, again, in this little intro here, and talk about. So Buzzsprout is the host. So in other words, when I, when I upload an episode, it uploads to Buzzsprout. And then through RSS feeds, it goes out to Apple and Spotify and all that kind of good stuff. So So you know, if you follow me, or if you're a friend on Facebook, and I really got to get better at putting this stuff out. But if you've if you if you're offended with me on Facebook, then you will, you've seen the Spotify wrapped, which is just a snapshot of the podcast on Spotify only. And nobody else does it Apple doesn't do a wrapped or a year end review or whatever nobody else does, to my knowledge. And this year, actually Buzzsprout did its own, they're calling it backtrack. So I want to read a little bit of this the stuff that they put out. So I did 35 episodes last year, which is an average of 2.92 episodes per month. You know, there was a time during this year where I stepped back. And you know, that's it was needed and necessary. And it's kind of sucks when you when you get to the end of the year, and you're like you kind of miss some of your goals. But I had to do what I had to do. And I think you know, almost call it, you know, damn near three episodes, months, not too shabby. You know, I think my goal is for a month, you know, one a week, but it's sometimes I can do that. And sometimes it can't this one obviously is going to be the second one this week. But and I want to touch on that in a little bit. But let me get through. Let me get through these stats. So of all the podcasts that Buzzsprout hosts and I don't know the number. They're a pretty popular one that there but they aren't the only one Rising Phoenix podcast is in the top 25% of those podcasts. What does that mean? So that sounds more impressive than it kind of is. So the top 50% were bottom 50 whichever way you want to look at it. That equates to 30 downloads in the first week after release. So so someone puts out an episode and after the first week, at least 30 people have listened, which, you know, that's not too shabby. But that just goes to show you how many podcasts there are that get very few listens. So being in the top 25% means I get 105 lessons within the first week that's less than typical for me typical is probably about between 202 25 I probably say to 25 On average, is roughly within the first seven days to be in the top 10% I would need to hit 405 within that first seven days, so I'm halfway there so I'm probably top 20% Give or take. And then top 5% is 975 downloads and or listens by the way. So a download is essentially a listen for I think it's 10 seconds at least if I'm not mistaken or might even only be one second 9% Sure. But at that download and listen essentially same thing. It's it's as soon as someone listens for a period of time, and it's a very short period of time, like I said, I think it's, I think it's 10 seconds. That counts as a download. The top 5% is not I think I said this 975 And then the top 1% is 4588. So 4580 listens within seven days. I don't know. You know, how many are in? I think there are eight Well, you could probably do the math. I think there are 2 million ish podcasts. So I'm terrible at math. So at least a million of them aren't well listened to, you know. So I'm, you know, 20 Top 25 Top 20% Give or take isn't, you know, it's not too shabby. I don't do any ads. You know, fortunately, I'm, I'm I run the divorce court for men group. And that's where a large part of my listeners come from. But I do hear like little smatterings of things like people finding out about the podcast in different ways. And it's interesting stuff. Anyway, onto some more metrics. The number one city so the most popular city in totality in 2023, is actually Melbourne. I don't know if it's Melbourne, Melbourne, Melbourne, right. I don't know, you guys can tell me. And again, if your friends on on Facebook, you've seen some of this, for whatever reason. So on Spotify, Melbourne, or Melbourne and Sydney are actually my top two, it's a little different here. But like I said, Spotify has its own little snapshot. So Melbourne is number one at 356 downloads, you know, in 2023 in that city, which I don't know what that means, you know, in terms of like, is that? Were there 10 people that are listening? Are there 20 Are there 356 That listen once. I mean, it's just there's so many unknowns with podcasts, stats and stuff. Next is Chicago, Illinois with 345 Sydney, like I said in Australia, 251, Phoenix, 224 and Philadelphia 186. This is for episodes in 2023. So the totality is different, but just in 2023 there are 356 downloads out of Melbourne this year. So again, cool shit. And listen, honestly, 356 doesn't sound like a lot. I mean, but this one city and again, how many people is that? I don't fucking know. 67 countries this year, LED. I don't know if I'll read the numbers, but maybe it will. US, Canada, UK, Australia, Germany. And so they see those the weirdness of this like so my two of my top five cities are in Australia, but but Australia is my fourth country. So it's very strange. US has 13,000 this this year 13,007. Seven, Canada was 1001 47. United Kingdom 1052. Australia 872. And Germany 116. That's the top five countries. Again, in 2023. Only it's different in totality. Or at least it's it's not exactly like that. I don't think top episodes, Episode 96 negative thought loops, Episode 95 The pain of rejection. Episode 92 Real Men Real stories, Andrew, great episode, Episode 102 on tying emotional knots. In episode 98 infidelity. Were the were the top five episodes for this podcast in 2023. So that's it. I just wanted to cover. So here's a sort of a snapshot. It's it says, top 25% of all shows 36,000 downloads this year. 35 episodes 67 Different countries 16 138 minutes of content. Pretty cool stuff. So, you know, I think we had this discussion on On this episode, you know, is it successful? You know? I guess it depends on your metric. Am I making money? Yeah, kinda, I guess, you know, people contribute monthly, there's 41 or 42 contributors every month. It's you know, it's only five bucks a month, some guys do give a little bit more. Which is I'm grateful for, you know, when I when I say it's used, it truly is the the, the otter my transcript service is due, and I gotta pay that and I need I need, you know, the contributions to do that. Zoom is going to be due soon and I'm going to need to pay that. And there's a couple other things sprinkled out here and they're like Calendly the app that I use to book guests sometimes or book clients.

See what else is there? Oh, quick and you know, I have to do accounting and shit. Because, because I do get money. So that's, you know, I gotta pay for that. So. So it is absolutely used and needed and appreciated for sure. So, but is this podcast successful? You know? Has it helped, then then the answer is yes. Is it? Has it allowed me to only do this for a living to make money? No. Will it? I don't know. I'm not I don't have any intention of stopping. I really don't. I had two interviews this week, which I'll, I don't know if I'll release them. So here's one of our bring this up. Now, I want to get to the episode. But I do want to talk about this real quick. So let's put a pin in that either the answer to the question is, is it successful? It depends on your metric. How's that? So I had mentioned this in a couple of episodes, or at least one episode. Spotify has a q&a thing. So I've never claimed to be an Einstein. So I thought they were the q&a function was they would ask me a question. And I would respond, well, that's not how it works. So apparently, the q&a function within Spotify. And I don't know if Spotify ever sent out an email. I read this. Somewhere, I can't remember where. But the purpose of the q&a function is I asked you a question the audience and you answer when people have been using it to comment, which is great, but I can't respond. So if you've comment on Spotify, thank you so much, I can't respond. So but let's use this q&a, as its intended. So if you listen on Spotify, you can. You can use this. And by the way, Google if you're listening on Google podcasts, and there's 114 of you that follow me on Google podcast, Google podcasts, I'm sure you know, this is going away at the middle. It doesn't say it says mid year 2024. Whatever the fuck that means. June, July. May, I don't know, who knows. It's not it's not specific. You're gonna need to find I'm gonna need to do this too. So maybe I'll I'll try some things and let you guys know, because I listen to podcasts myself, but I don't I use Google. So I'm not sure what it's gonna I think that their intention is to put Google podcasts within Google music. So if you have a Google Play Music, or whatever they call it now YouTube music, I think they call it now, then that's probably where everything's gonna go. And they've allowed the ability for me to send the audio only episodes to YouTube at this point. But I'm not. I don't know, if I'm going to do that probably will only because I don't want to completely lose out on any opportunities for listeners. But I don't want to, I guess it's going to be both. So I think if you go to my YouTube channel, you're gonna see the audio one and the video one. I guess that's the way it's gonna be. I don't know. I'm not sure if the video version will be available in the same way that an audio one would be with inside YouTube music. I'm not sure that anyway, my point is, we're going to need to find an app. And maybe you know, I'll keep you posted on what I do. But But anyway, my whole fucking point was, I am. Let's try and use this Spotify q&a feature I am considering I recorded to what I think are pretty good episodes this week. I am considering releasing these episodes both next week. And part of me is I want to do it because if I'm being honest, I want to do it because I want to hit a certain goal of downloads. For the year, I had a goal of getting to a total of 100,000 downloads. I'm not going to make that I revised that down a bit. And I'm sure I'm hopeful that I can meet that. If I released two episodes next week. I'll be a lot closer to it. My revised goal. Do you dear listeners on Spotify? Do you think I'm cheating? Should I just release one a week? And not try to get that goal? Or? You guys okay with that? I don't know. It feels a little disingenuous, I guess. But maybe it's not. Maybe I'm just making up for the episodes that I did miss. I'm not sure so. And going forward, I may may find different ways to use this q&a thing now that I understand a little bit better. I may ask questions, and I don't know every episode but more episodes and say, audience What do you think? So let's try and use this thing. Let's let's give it a shot and on this particular episode, and put it to use so that's all I got to think for sort of housekeeping type stuff. You know, I had to I had to step back but this year a little bit, but I still think the numbers on all are pretty good. Even with my little bit of a step back there still was growth, for sure in terms of number of downloads. I think that's all I got for this one. Hopefully you enjoy this. I will have an episode at least one out next week with a psychologist And then I have one with an author. They're both, I think, pretty good episodes. So just let me know if you if you're listening on Spotify, if you think I should release only one next week or bucket and release both, and thank you sincerely to those of you that have commented on Spotify, I do appreciate it. Here we go. Episode 127. Do you have to be around her still? I mean, imagine that you you probably do.

Speaker 1 15:23
Yeah. Yeah, from time to time. And you know, what, it's gotten a whole lot easier. I've the term put away comes to mind, and I don't think that's right. I'm gonna say I've put away my anger. But that's, that's not right. I've not put it away. I've dealt with it. You know, I've come to come to terms with things. I've accepted things, I'm at peace with things. And yeah, you know, being around her for family functions. And, you know, even reaching out every once in a while, as you know, the mother of my son and somebody who I was, you know, the deepest of friends with for over 30 years, you know? Yeah, it's a whole lot easier. And I, you know, I really don't have a problem with it like I did a couple years ago.

Michael 16:11
Yeah, I think at one point, you guys were like, I mean, you had dinner on a couple of occasions, right now you've had, like, sort of friendly interactions with her. Yep. And we still do on occasion. And how long did it take you to get to the point where you were able to have a friendly interaction with her?

Speaker 1 16:26
She's at least two years, at least probably three. Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna go through with three years. But

Michael 16:35
yeah, by the way, there ain't nothing wrong with that. That's That's reality. It took three years to Pierce. Yeah. And

Speaker 1 16:41
that, you know, that time was all, you know, just me processing my shit. And getting to a place of, you know, where I could accept the situation for what it is, you know, accept, accept her for who she is, accept me for who I am. And accept our, you know, where we stand in the world together?

Michael 17:02
For what it is? Do you think that you were you consciously trying to not be angry? Or or how long did you hold on to your anger before you said, I'm guessing you at some point had to say, I don't want to be angry anymore. So how long? How long did it take from like, sort of deciding like, Okay, I don't want to be angry anymore. How long? Did that take a year or two? Whatever. And then how long did it take to? I'll say less than? Because I'm assuming the anger still creeps up here and there. Right. So how long was it for the first one? How long? Did you decide, you know, what, I just I don't want to be angry anymore.

Speaker 1 17:39
You know, it's funny, I didn't even get angry. until at least six months in. And I think, you know, that was just the, you know, the shock part of the, you know, the the shock stage, the denial stage, whatever, I did not get angry for six to nine months. And my therapist at the time. You know, he was like, why aren't you angry? Why don't you get angry? And at the time, I didn't feel that it served any purpose. Yeah. And he was like, he's like, I kind of get what you're saying. He's like, but at some point, you're gonna have to get angry. And, and I did it naturally, it finally naturally came. And I'd say it took me Yeah, it took me a couple years to work through that. And yeah, there was there finally came a point in time, where I decided I didn't want to be angry anymore.

Michael 18:34
And then how long did it take for you to process from that moment of making that decision? that conscious decision? I really don't want to piss the piste anymore. How long did it take you to work through to the point where you are now?

Speaker 1 18:48
I you know, it's an ongoing process. Hey, man. Yeah.

Michael 18:54
I love that answer. Because I think there are still moments that, you know, I'm assuming, well, you know, I talked to Chris and even some of the sometimes he's, you know, 1920 years, and he still has moments like, so his daughter is getting married this weekend is always daughter, I am sure. He's gonna have some moments of of anger 20 years later. Because I think this stuff is it's hard. And it's it's hurtful. And that brings up anger. And that's, I think that's normal. But I think if you make a conscious decision to I don't want to be that way, because I do think that when you are angry, she's controlling you, right? You're a little puppet, like, you know, she can she can make you angry whenever she wants her whenever she pleases. Or she might not even want she just is. But she's that means in my view, she's controlling you. And I don't I don't think any of us really, if we really sit down and look at it. And we feel like we've been locked in so many different ways and we're heartbroken and hurt and all these things. We don't want to be controlled by them. I think ultimately you have to make a decision like I don't want to be in Dallas. I don't want to be angry and then you got to do the hard fucking work of working through all that shit. Yeah, and I think it is an ongoing process like because His life comes at you and birthdays and and you know where you guys your son is married, right? Yes, yes. Was he was he married before the divorce or after he was? Yes. Okay, so you didn't have to deal with some of that but but now you have grandkids so you have to deal with some mess of like birthdays and that kind of shit. Oh yeah. And if I remember correctly that it's a boy you don't have to say but the grand child is pretty young. So you got a lot of milestones coming up right preschool. We're

Speaker 1 20:27
actually we've got we've got three grandchildren now. Oh, shit. I thought it was only one. Yeah, nope. ages three to nine. So. So yeah, our family interactions together. Surrounding the grandkids. They're there at least few times a year. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, the past few years, we've we've done Christmas together at the kids house. And you know, it's worked out. It's been fine. Now, was

Michael 20:50
she dating anyone or anything of that nature?

Speaker 1 20:53
You know, I don't know. She didn't bring him around. Yeah, no, no, if she is she she's certainly not brought him around. And, and my son has not led led me to believe and, you know, if she is good for her, if not, well, you know, that's okay, too. Yeah. So,

Michael 21:11
if you don't mind, let's, let's dive into that a little bit. Because, you know, I know we're kind of you're at in terms of even interest in dating, and you don't? You don't really have any, right. I mean, I'm not at this point.

Speaker 1 21:24
I do and I don't. I seem to still have some work to do on being confident enough and ready enough to put myself out there. The online dating thing just doesn't see, for me, you know, I've, you know, I've gone as far as to set a profile up a few times. And, you know, and it's just like, this. It's a it's gonna have to be organic. And, you know, I just haven't, I shouldn't say I haven't I have. I haven't really met anybody whose baggage matches my baggage. And you know, whose baggage I want to pick up and carry. Sadly enough, the the ladies I've been interested in are not available.

Michael 22:06
Hey, Brian, how you doing, sir? It's, it sucks. Let's just call it what it is. Yeah. I think the pickings are slim. If people can play guys complain all the time. Where are the good ones out? Well, they're fucking married. They're married. I mean, not all of them that are married are good ones. But I'm saying the good ones that they're loyal and faithful and all that they're married. They're doing their thing. I think our best case scenario, and this is just me, and maybe I'm wrong. And maybe I'm sort of bitter in some kind of ways. But like, I think our best case scenario is someone that was, was cheated on left, whatever she that her story mirrors our story when she was hurt and devastated, and all this kind of shit. And then she had to go do so do a lot of work and go through a lot of therapy and read a lot of books and do all these things to get into a healthy place. And I think I think that's the best case scenario. For me personally, I don't see I wouldn't want to be with walk away wife, someone who's like, oh, you know, he was I just got tired of it. Okay? What? How long before you get tired of me? No, thank you. A widow. No offense to anyone or whatever. My mom's a widow and stuff but like mine, cuz my dad passed long time ago. But I feel like you'd be living up to a ghost. I don't have any intention or interest in that. I mean, if people want to do that, that's great. I'm not knocking it, but I don't for me, personally, I have no interest in it. And so then what are we left with? That slim, I think number of folks that have mirror our stories, because typically is the woman at least so I just think that that makes the pool very, very small. And if you live in bumfuck, Pennsylvania, it's even smaller. So I don't I don't have much hope. I'm assuming something eventually will happen. But put boy sometimes I gotta tell you, I'm just like, is it's fucking feels hopeless.

Speaker 1 23:56
Well, you know, and I think I've heard you mentioned this and I it rings. Very true with me. I think my my standards now are where the fuck up here? Oh, yeah. And, you know, I'm not talking physical standards. Sure, that's nice. That's, that's okay. But, ya know, my standards are so fucking high. And, you know, I'm not going to I'm not going to settle. I don't think I'm going to accept a lot of the things that I accepted and, you know, my marriage for for 27 years. So yeah, and yeah, it's just gonna have to happen organically and so far as so.

Michael 24:36
Yeah. And we say organically and I think that's the best way but how how do you think that will happen? I know you do a lot of bicycling and that kind of stuff. I don't know if you if that's coed thing or if that's what your boys are? Like, how do you envision because I think that would be great too. But I also find myself sitting on my ass at home sometimes in like, well, who the fuck? How am I gonna meet anybody? doing this but yeah, how do you see that playing out? Like what does organically sort of mean to you? Yeah, I?

Speaker 1 25:06
I don't know because I don't do the I don't do the bar scene. I'm not a terribly social person. Yeah, and I do my I do my fair share so at home on my ass as well and yeah, like you said meet anybody on my couch? Yeah, the cycling thing is is CO Ed. Due to the nature it's much more women are much more men than women but that's sort of the nature of the sport, but it's certainly co Ed and. And yeah, that's that's where I've I've actually met some women who I am interested in, but they are not available. Yeah, and I'm not that guy. No,

Michael 25:43
no, no, no, God, no, fuck that. Yeah, I mean, I struggle with like, literally, how do you? How do you how do you make it organic? If you sit on your ass at home? Like you can? Yeah,

Speaker 1 25:55
you know, there's a there's a lady at a lady at work who is very attractive. And, you know, she's, I think she's a few years couple, couple, two, three years younger than me. She's also divorced. And, you know, co workers been like, we're gonna ask her out, you know, aren't you guys looking up? Oh, no, you know, and I'm just like, Now, first of all, I'm I'm a pretty significant believer of, you know, you don't shit where you I've seen what can happen in that dynamic. Yeah. And, you know, second, you know, okay, in some chats with her and stuff, you know, it's like, I just don't know that there's a whole lot there. You know, for us to grab hold up together. I just I don't know if she's made. I think she's made some some questionable if not bad choices and men in the past and I'm not sure I want to be her first. Good choice.

Michael 26:51
That's a that's an interesting perspective. Well, I mean, I think listen to department going, Oh, look, you don't know till you know, right? Yeah, true. But I do agree. You don't shit where you eat. I think that could turn fucking now I see. Like a I mean, you work closely with her. It's something that like if it did get awkward or or if it did turn sour, it would be not good for your working day or whatever.

Speaker 1 27:14
Well, we don't work on the same team, but in the same building. And, you know, there's maybe 100 people in the building. So

Michael 27:23
I mean, bucket go for it. Yeah. Once my friend, you know, I've seen you only live once. But I understand. I think there's a hesitation now. Now. It curious if you're sort of high standards, which I think mine are sometimes a detriment to in a way where it's like, my standards are very high. And I wonder how much of that is, is certainly righteous, but how much of it is protection airy, like, how much of it is like, I'm going to make my standards so impossible, but nobody can meet or beat it. And thus, I'll never be with anyone again. And thus, I'll never get hurt again. Like how am I thinking?

Speaker 1 27:58
I think it's very protection airy? Honestly, I really do. Yeah. None of us want to go through this shit Shogun.

Michael 28:06
Oh, god. No, I can't I don't understand the guys who I mean, I do understand in some ways, I don't understand the guys get married again, right away. Like right away. That's just ridiculous. And then guys that jump into dating right away, although I was guilty of that, but I don't know if I would call it dating. I would call it whoring maybe, like, I could put my dick and anything I could like, I didn't care, right. But I never understood that like people that just like, sort of discount the what occurred and just be like, Oh, it was all her fault. And just gotta find another one or a better one.

Unknown Speaker 28:40
Good luck. Yeah.

Michael 28:43
Good, either. Well, I think you know, we talk a lot of times I think in here I think I tried to stress that, you know, especially after after you, you know, first occurs it's important to work on yourself, but I think if we're being honest, the long term goal, it doesn't have to be but I do think it is because we're social creatures. We all crave connection. I think the ultimate goal is to return to a good relationship. And so I think it's important to talk about that and get to that but also think that you know, we got to make sure we're taking the time to make sure that we're doing the work so we we are ensured that the next one is a good one because if we just do the same shit over and over, or if we just sort of ignore our part in it and just try to dive into the next one, we're gonna wind up right to fuck back where we are. And back to Pete your point earlier. I don't want to go through this fucking shit again. Once enough for me. I'm not saying I don't want to get I don't know about married. I'm not saying I don't want to be in a relationship again. But I sure as fuck don't want to be devastated like like this again, ever. I mean, sometimes there's only so much you can do to protect yourself but if I don't do any kind of work on me and sort of trying to understand my part in it and fix that's again those things that I'm that I'm in danger of repeating it and I know fucking thanks. No thanks

Speaker 2 30:03
is inevitable. If you love, you will get hurt. Yeah, that's fucking reality of it unless you move to a monastery and never have contact with another person again, you will be hurt by people. The key is not making the same mistakes, not letting it destroy your entire self again, you know, I'm, I really firmly believe I'm two years out I had one fling, not quite a year after separation that was a very short fling, but honestly, I needed it to reestablish my confidence, like, Okay, I am a desirable man, I don't need this validation. But at that point I did. But at the end of the day, a relationship is always going to be the icing on a wellmade cake. If you eat icing out of the tub without any goddamn cake, it is going to make you sick, you know, so So a relationship really does need to be the icing on a really well built life. And I think by doing that, yes, you're gonna get you're heartbroken. If you love anybody that's inevitable. But by putting that icing on a well made cake instead of a fragile cake, when shit inevitably blows up, whether whether it's, you know, the relationship dissolves, somebody dies, maybe you're the one that goes first hurts are gonna get broken when you love. Right. But when you put the icing on a good cake, hopefully it doesn't completely up in one's world again, in such a traumatic, violent way that unexpected divorce does. Because I do think there's a big difference between unexpected divorce and being the one on the executing side. I know in this group that may ruffle some feathers. But I think when you're hit with it, compared to being the one launching it, it's a very different experience.

Michael 31:44
Yeah, well, and I will say the only caveat is if you're if you're launching it because of other actions but but legit like cheating, not just the sometimes this shit that I think is I don't know how much I buy. And like all she treated me like shit or whatever. I'm not saying she didn't. But like, I don't know, you ultimately made a decision we anyway. But I think if there's cheating and things of that nature, it does skew that a little bit. But yeah, I think you're 100% Right. And I think that's sometimes a problem that I have with this group sometimes because I see guys come in here, and and sort of blame everything on her and they're happy to be away from her. And I'm just like, that just kind of rubs me the wrong way in good, bad or indifferent for me personally that because I was she was that guy, if you understand what I'm saying, like I was the worst fucking thing in the world. And thank God, I got away from that narcissistic piece of shit, you know. And so listen, everybody needs support. And I don't want anyone to not seek it out if they need it. But sometimes I wonder guys that are in here that have pulled the trigger? How much support do you need? How much support did my ex need? You know what I'm saying? I'm not I'm not trying to lump them together. But the scenarios are equal. I think

Speaker 2 32:55
they need lots of support the same as we do. They need lots of support the same as we do. But when you're on the receiving side versus the giving side, I think it's a different perspective. And well, it's definitely a different perspective, having not been the one to pull that trigger on major relationships. I've broken up with women, but but most of the major life altering breakups I've had, I was on the receiving end. So I can't give that advice to a guy that lived a life and said, You know what? She was this, that and the other I had to pull the plug. I don't know how to counsel you. You have a different set of struggles than then I have struggled with. I'm sure they need it. I just don't have that perspective and clarity to give it. Yeah,

Michael 33:31
I definitely can.

Jared 33:35
Well, next step can be scary as hell. I mean, you know, I just got remarried last month, and starting into dating and all that it. It's scary as hell. But you got to try and keep as much of an open mind with it as you can. Because yeah, I got fucked with a lot of things. But my wife isn't the one that fucked me. So I can't hold that against her. And she's divorced as well. And we each have our traumas and our baggage from our previous marriages. And open communication goes a long way for that. Because there'll be something she does or something I do that sets the other off for no reason other than our trauma. But for us, I just say kumquat that's our code word of Nope, I can't fucking do it right now. I'll come back to you. I'd come down and I'll explain why they'd sent me off. Yeah, we talked about that to come back. Yeah,

Michael 34:36
well, again, I was gonna say like we had this conversation earlier and that's that's the key and that's the hard part. It's always been the hard part for me. It's there's this like, No, I can't do it right now. And I'll do it later but then later never comes because it's because it's so much easier. Just ignore shit, right? It is. It's just it is now does it in the long run. It doesn't make things easier, but in the moments or in those in those situations, it makes it a whole fuck A lot easier if you can just ignore and walk away from it. But boy, does that shit fester. And that probably was what led to for sure. That's what led to my divorce. I don't know if anyone else has that similar sort of experience. I think we all do on it. So absolutely.

Speaker 1 35:13
I think we all do to an extent. Yeah. The

Jared 35:16
point with my ex where I'm fairly cold anymore. I mean, I'm not hostile by any means. But I just keep it as short and sweet as I can. My ex still loves to make shit awkward. Like two weeks ago, she came to pick up the kids and like, oh, congrats. I saw you got married again. Like yeah, thanks. Like, Well, I hope she's everything I couldn't be for you. I'm like, yeah, she's faithful. You want for me right now? Go away. Like that all the time, where I'm just like, why don't you just fucking leave? The conversation is going to go.

Michael 35:58
I think that's, that's an important point. It's a funny point. But it's an important point to make. You really got to limit your interactions. You got to learn this, these these big fancy words, boundaries and consequences and crashing into boundaries. That shit is there for a reason it's talked about for a reason. Because the better you are at setting your boundaries and maintaining them, the less conflict and bullshit you have in your life. And that's one of those things that especially in the beginning, when you're sort of all worked up, and pissed off and just emotional. The best thing one of the best things you can do is limit your fucking contact with that person. As much as you can rational know, you can know you're in fight or flight freeze point, wherever you're at. You're not in normal thinking logical, like, Yeah, well, let's maintain a civilized conversation. You're like that fucking cunt cheated on me or whatever it is, right? You can't be a sound mind. You. I know I could. And so one of the best things you can do is just limit your contact as much as you can stop fucking Oregon. Well, she said this and, and her mother said, Who gives a shit. But let her talk let her and her family and her friends. That's team was gonna say continuity. That's the wrong word. That's, that's team, the other side. Let that team fucking talk. They're going to anyone who gives a shit, stop trying to defend yourself or people that you're never going to be able to that will never support you or see your side anyway. So again, limit the fucking contact. And just sorry

Jared 37:22
for the people listening. Sometimes the best response is no response at all. No response is actually a response. And a lot of people don't realize that. Yeah,

Michael 37:33
you don't have to. There's no, it's some people I think I think there's a couple reasons to do it. One, I think is to maintain that contact, right? Yes, it was if even if you're arguing you're still talking. Right? You're still getting her attention. So that's I think that's one part of it. The other part of is I think they're they're still so hurt. They just want to their little does that saying hurt people hurt people. They're fucking hurt. And they just want to hurt back. And I get all of that. But it does, you know, good in the long run.

Jared 37:58
For me, it will beginning I would antagonize her a little bit, just because I was gathering ship record while I had my phone on record every conversation. So I picked her up a little bit, and she would think and get start yelling at me, and I got a lot of good shit that way.

Michael 38:16
And well, it worked too, right. I mean, you have, like 90% custody or something like that. 9393. So it kind of worked. I mean, I don't know if that tactic worked. But whatever. You did work because you have much more custody than she does. Yep. Justin, you're

Jared 38:31
a one size fits all. That's just what worked for me. Sure.

Speaker 2 38:37
Justice. Thanks so many cogwheels turning brothers. So Jared, you know, I know you quite quite well, in your case. 90% custody, totally appropriate. Honestly. 100% custody would have been totally appropriate. But I think we need to be careful of our verbiage, because that's not a win. Respectfully, that's not a win. For those kids. The biggest win for those kids would be having two parents well enough to parent 5050 Well, that's that's the biggest win in that but I think there's so many different things at play here, right? Like when it comes to conflict and breaking those ties. People who are used to existing in drama, or an excited state want to maintain that our neuro chemistry is best there. So whether it's off doing it or the alternate side doing it that bread crumbing I call it like throwing little little snippets to keep causing bullshit. Those little flare ups so even if it's only a two sentence argument to text back and forth luck, you know, fuck me. Like that. That little wee bit is engaging that brain chemistry that if you want to move past this, you really do need to change so the faster you can break that contact, honored and 20% and I forgot the second half of my my stream of consciousness. There's so many good points going around your voice.

Michael 39:58
Well, no, it's It's true you got it you have to sort of change what you do right but in the first step in that I say this all the time you got to be conscious of what you do. So if you got to be mindful be aware I know that sounds mindful sounds like you should be on a fucking mountain going oh, but it's not it's just paying attention to your fucking thoughts and your actions to see there's patterns and why am I doing this and ask the question why so many fucking times? And then you can start to evaluate is this something that's helping or hurting? Yeah, and then you can start making some decisions but it's hard all this shit is hard. We're so like you said it's it's your neural pathways. It's your your the things that you do are ingrained within you. And you've been that way for a very fucking long time. So changing it is not easy. It's not the snap of a fucking finger. But it starts with being aware. Like what am I doing? I was

Jared 40:47
sorry, Jackie, you're good. I was lucky on that front. Because you guys know the wedding dress story. I was able to put all of my rage into that dress. And I'm done. All my rage that was covered in mud. I

Michael 41:06
admire that I do think symbolic I don't know if that's symbolic. But gestures I do think are important in this process. Like Like, burning shit for sure. It's part of as part of my program is part of my program. That's there's there's something about taking actions to sort of move on and let go that are extremely helpful burning shit getting rid of shit, changing shit, like new furniture or whatever, you know, moving ship painting shit, like all of that stuff is so very helpful in this process. It just, it allows you again to sort of see start to see things and do things differently. And those those steps wearing, you're literally wearing, I couldn't fit into my XYZ wedding dress. I'm glad you could see the

Jared 41:49
title recorded a lot. And that was terrible. Couldn't get down on tight again, I'd take my pocket and I've cut the damn thing off me. And then if I move back a little bit, the chest stayed where it was. And I was just surrounded by.

Unknown Speaker 42:05
It just didn't

Jared 42:07
get wrapped up in the axles with me and talk shop around my kids. There's code words or I do it in Spanish. So kids have no idea. Interest. Like two days after my ex left, I found out she was cheating on me on the couch in my living room. And so I got drunk one night, pulled a reclining sofa out of my house by myself and lit on fire in the middle of my driveway. Yes, we do. Like kids just think I hate green couches now. All right, that button you can think I hate green couches.

Michael 42:43
That's true.

Jared 42:46
But that fucking thing in my house.

Unknown Speaker 42:48
Oh dad, you can't come over my friend Billy's house. This guy.

Michael 42:54
Did Ichi. You got it? I think all y'all I could be wrong on this state in the marital home. Am I wrong on this? I think everyone here did right. Yeah. What's that? Pete? Yeah, I still hear. Yep. That's what I thought. Brian, you're in the same. Yeah. Okay, so we lost Jared. So So did you guys do anything like new furniture painting moving shit around? Whatever. Did you guys do any of that stuff?

Speaker 1 43:18
Not a lot of painting. I think just about every room has been painted. that not every room a lot of painting a lot of new furniture. There's actually still there's still more stuff I'd like to do, you know, still selling off the same dishes and shit. You know, I was thinking just the other day, I just get rid of this shit and get some new stuff. But the one room that really got the fucking makeover was the bedroom. Sample bedroom. I mean, there ain't nothing in there. That's the same.

Jared 43:50
Yeah, and my bedroom, it's still pretty well, the same. First thing I did was I rearranged my living room. It was like four months after. And I didn't realize how much I'd been avoiding rooms in my house. Until that day, I rearranged my living room, and I actually had to get up off the couch to go to bed. Like, whoa, this is fucking weird. And then I remodeled my bathroom after that, and I just redid a bunch again. Last Friday.

Michael 44:19
Oh, wow.

Unknown Speaker 44:20
It's therapeutic good.

Michael 44:22
It really is.

Jared 44:25
Just changing the space. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 44:27
Yeah. And it does take a lot. Really just some small. Yeah,

Michael 44:31
you can just move shit around. Yep. I wanted to tell you, if you don't mind, I do want to cover some stats on the podcast, not nothing. I don't wanna take a lot of time on this, but it is the third birthday of this thing. And it always kind of kind of really blows my mind. When I look at some of these things, and I look at just a number of countries. So since the launch of this thing, it's been listened to now to varying degrees in terms of numbers. But it's been listened to and 100 and 19 different countries. Wow. Can you wrap your head around that because I have a heart that is huge. Now some of it is you know, I can get down to like the ones and shits like Guatemala only one listen Ecuador Ethiopia some of them are very no one listens one off Nicaragua that does start climbing a little bit the Bahamas too. And I'm not going to read them all but then then Russia three, which I would love to talk to these fucking people. I swear. If I say this all the time it's like if you're from I don't know if you even can contact me from China. Five people or five listens from China. Someone from China fucking card contact me please. I want to talk to you. How'd you find it? All these kinds of things. And why only five What the fuck? It starts climbing. Uruguay seven again. Uruguay HOW THE FUCK IS Slovenia? Nigeria? Thailand. 11 There's some jokes there I'm sure but Puerto Rico 12 starts climbing a little bit. Italy. 18 Brazil 22 South Korea now starts playing a little bit more Iceland 35 South Korea 36. Egypt 41. and then Pakistan gets into the 50s. Spain and into the 60s. Belgium 74 times Poland. 83 times. Norway. 112. South Africa 163. And then it gets into the two hundreds which is the top 12345678 which is Sweden at 202. Netherlands. 206. France 216. Germany 310. Australia is third with 30 715 lessons. UK 5130. listens. Canada coming in strong at number two at 6020. listens. And then of course the US currently at 68,003 listens. That is awesome. It's fucking weird.

Speaker 1 47:04
That is awesome. Congratulations, my friend. Thank you. It is

Speaker 3 47:07
great. It's they hear this in their language mic or what? No,

Michael 47:11
no, they're just deciphering as best they can. My nonsense. That maybe that's why there's only five listens. Maybe they thought the logo was cool. And they're like, I'll give it a listen and then couldn't fucking understand my mind. I don't know. But yeah, and then cities I definitely won't go through all these but 4601 different cities across the world. 4601 cities that's again, what's the

Speaker 1 47:39
what's the number one city with the evidently the most divorced guys that that need to listen to this podcast?

Michael 47:46
That's a good question. So I will go over I'll do it. Maybe I'll do the top five. So funny enough. Strangely, the top two are in Australia. So the number one city is Melbourne, Melbourne and Victoria, Australia, that 1100 83 listens. And then Sydney, Australia, obviously 1095. Next is Chicago at 1064. Seattle, 2032 and Philly at 1011. And then it dips down from there. Ontario's 900. And then there's a there's a bunch of obviously a bunch of underneath there, but I don't know that's a good question. And then of course if you look at that, that's the totality if you look at I thought you were drinking Guinness, I thought when we were talking Irish I thought I seen a Guinness there Justin. I'm like a fucking I'm like a rabid dog. I get distracted. Very easy. What the fuck was I even saying? So that's all that's all Guinness and I got excited. Yeah, I don't know what the fuck I was saying. I don't know. It depends on where you look like. So this is totality. This is like from everywhere. But then if you look at Apple it the last time I looked at Apple, I think the and that's the top mechanism that people used to listen to the podcast. I think the top city with with Apple I think is Seattle maybe. So it's really interesting to sort of look at this shit and try and wrap my head around at all.

Speaker 1 49:13
I'm afraid I'm afraid my numbers probably don't count because I'm a very visual person. And since you've started, you know, doing the the visual or the video podcast, I'm doing YouTube almost exclusively. And I believe you've said in the past that somehow those numbers don't get ranked counted, you

Michael 49:33
know, which is fine. I don't really I mean, it's as well. Yeah, so YouTube's definitely different and now so I'm not sure what I'm going to do going forward. But now go for

Speaker 1 49:45
one episode. Oh, yeah.

Michael 49:49
Oh, yeah, for sure. Funny enough. Funny enough, it's not episode one. It used to be episode one for a long time. It was episode one which makes sense, right? Sure. It's not the Last time I look yeah, it's actually episode two. So Episode Two has been listened to 2010 times. And that's the number one episode. The next one is episode one, which is 19 169. There is, I think. So I know the top five, it doesn't. Without, I'd have to look at every single one, but the top five or 2143 and 11. And 11 is the least of the five or of the Yeah, 12345. And that's 12 121 times. So I used to be it used to be episode one, which makes sense. But then for some reason, which I don't, I mean, that's a good episode, so I don't really give a shit. Episode Two now leads the pack. So some of that, obviously, is time. Like, you know, episode two has been out there obviously longer than episode 123. Right? That's true. And so. So that's a part of it. One of the things that is sort of interesting is that typically, each episode is about 500 downloads within a 90 day window. So that's 3060 90 is kind of what is the metric that and of course, all time but those three are what's looked at and sort of measured by Buzzsprout, which is the host. So within that 90 days, typically, it's about 500 downloads per episode. They say that, with that number, I think I'm in the top like 30% of podcasts in the world. So and you got to think that there's a lot of fucking podcasts out there that have like two episodes, or 10 episodes or whatever. So it skews everything in a way. Like, obviously, you got Rogen, who's probably got, I don't know, a million listens in 90 days, or whatever it is. I don't know what the number is. But it's so hard to figure out like, what is success with a podcast? Right? I don't if people ask me, like, you know, how successful are you? I don't fucking know. I don't know people. Listen, I know that much. But is it like compared to Rogan, it's nothing compared to, you know, the other 2 million podcasts and don't pretty fucking well, but it's hard to really measure it. And then everything's sort of, you know, you get it from different places. And so I can look at my total number of downloads, but I can't I don't know how many people were actually listening and following. Apple tracks, followers and Spotify tracks, followers and Google, but Google shutting down. And there's so many other podcasts that I don't that people listen on. But I don't like apps that they use, but but they don't track. I don't see those metrics from them. So I can look at Apple and Spotify. And I can tell you, you know what the number one episode is on there. But there's an app called I think, overcast or I Heart Radio. I don't have any metrics from those organizations. So I have no idea. And with as far as I know, with YouTube, I don't get any real metrics, either in terms of like, where are people listening? I can tell you how many people it's not as high as obviously what's going on here. I think, as of this morning, I think I look, there's 286 I think followers on YouTube. But if you look at Apple, Spotify and Google, there's over 1000. But again, that's there's a missing some for sure. So it's really, I try not to look at these I obviously do. But I try not to like focus on who's listening and what like, like YouTube will tell you, how long did someone listen to a video before they stopped? I don't look at that shit, because I'll lose my fucking mind. I'll be like, wait a minute, what did what did I say? Why did this? Why did they stop? Then? What did I say? Then? You know, it was something I did. Like you could you could literally lose your fucking mind. If you if you really get into the minutiae of this, and I just don't have any interest, I look at totals, I try not to do it. I do have a goal for the end of the year, I'm probably going to fall short. But I kind of took a little break in the middle of the year. So I'm okay with that. But I don't I don't try to focus on it. Because all I can do is just put it out there and just keep putting it out there. And I think, you know, they say, you know, there's no such thing as an overnight success story. I fucking believe that. You know, you just got to keep going. You just got to keep going. And so if I focus on, you know, what kind of numbers I have every day or whatever, I probably would, I'd stop. It's rare that I get a day where there isn't at least 50 listens on various episodes. But it happens. But if I looked at those days where I have 40 or 31, I'd be like, Oh, fuck what's going on? What you know what's wrong? Why, you know, it's not working. I gotta shut it down. I can't I can't do that. I try not to look at that stuff. I lose my fucking mind. So,

Unknown Speaker 54:35
but you're not in it for that either.

Michael 54:37
The real No, I just want to help that as well.

Speaker 1 54:40
So, you know, it's a, like you said it's hard to quantify. Is it? Is it festival? Well, you know, depending on the measure measurement of success. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. 100% resounding success. It's quite successful. So yeah,

Michael 54:56
I think so. I mean, I definitely reach folks for sure. But yeah, you know, 191 countries is a lot. I mean, again, some of them are five lessons or seven or whatever, but it's still reaching those folks. And maybe there was just one, maybe they only needed one episode, I think you need more than one. But maybe they only needed one. Maybe they just needed that legal one, or that the suicide one maybe even, or whatever. And that was enough to get them to a better place. That's, that's all fucking matters. I mean, I do get messages and comments, Spotify, sort of this new q&a thing, which is the stupidest fucking thing. It's called q&a, but I can't say it. People, people will comment, and I can't respond. So it's like, if you look, if you look at Spotify on, on all the episodes, you can see comments, but I can't respond to them. It's fucking stupid. So there's not a lot of them. But it does happen. It's random people on it. Same with my YouTube channel, people do comment. So I know it's reaching people. And would it be nice if I was doing only this for a living here? You're putting a writer would may that? Is it possible? I don't know. Maybe again, I try not to I'm just trying to put them out and put out stuff that I've a that I'm going through, in hopes that that helps. But the stuff that I went through and experts and professionals and folks that have lived it in order to help. And maybe someday I will be able to, you know, catch my check, you know, because how

Unknown Speaker 56:17
are you doing?

Michael 56:18
How am I doing?

Speaker 3 56:21
You know, in regards to your divorce and going forward? Is everything going? Well for you?

Michael 56:28
Yeah, I mean, you know, divorce, the divorce is final. The 401k Shit is still still my fucking final. I got the African person, I'm

Unknown Speaker 56:43
just asking you

Michael 56:45
that. I don't I don't mind. So what I do you the 401k has been rejected now, four times by fidelity. Because her lawyer is a fucking moron and doesn't have to fill out a fucking form. I sincerely hope that she is not paying this fucking idiot to fill out these forms every single time. Because that's why it's getting rejected is because she doesn't he doesn't know how to fill it out. So I just got an email on Tuesday or Wednesday from my lawyer that said, here's a new form. He did it again. Try it. Here's the fifth attempt or whatever the fuck it is, at this point, please sign this one and bring it back. So that's still ongoing. That definitely was difficult to deal with. Because it was very, like they were putting on me like was my fault. Like I was doing something wrong. I was hiding money or moving money, which is nonsense. The money's there take it. I mean, I don't want you to take it but you're legally entitled to it. Like there's a divorce decree signed, and you're owed this money from this fun. So fucking take it already. But

Speaker 1 57:51
can you just fill the form out in its entirety, minus that lawyer signature and have him sign it because I went through a similar thing on transfer funds out of a, an IRA and you same thing, you know, form was filled out incorrectly. Rejected blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, and, you know, I didn't even I knew what the numbers were supposed to be like. But this figure in you know, column, you know, it's just,

Michael 58:20
I think in high end, this is this is one of my weaknesses, right? This is like, I don't want to deal with it type thing. This is this is part of my weakness. So I think in hindsight, if I would have done that, from the get go, yeah, that's what I should have done. I kind of let them like, Okay, you fucking figure it out? Because you're supposed to figure it out per the divorce decree. It's on her and her lawyer to figure this shit out. But yes, I think although I don't know how well that would have been received because ultimately, they sued me because they said I was being manipulative or whatever they luscious malicious intent to hide my I don't know, go fuck yourself. So I don't know that they would have accepted anything for me anyway, but I do wish that I would have just contacted fidelity, which wasn't easy to find because they have a cute er o department a quadro whatever you want to call it, getting in touch with that department wasn't the easiest, but I did eventually get a number from a guy where I talked to the guy and got his direct number and he's like, just call me if you need any help. And I wish I would have just taken the bull by the horns initially when the first rejection came and just worked with fidelity to figure it out and fill it out properly and then take it to them and say here the fuck it is all she has to do is sign it. But I'm hopeful knock on wood that this time to communicate it right? I don't know. She's still not going to get the money she thinks he's gonna get just because of the performance of the fund which I have nothing to do with right talking stock market and the fund. Allocations ain't on me so but that that definitely it bothered me because she didn't trust me. And I don't know why that bothers me because who gives a shit but part of it did because it's like, I'm not trying to fuck you here woman like it's just court order. Yeah. So long story short, we're waiting on while I got a printout and sign the latest version of this fucking form. And then my lawyer is like, just bring it to my office. But I'm thinking, why would I do that, because then you're going to charge me to take it to her to her lawyer's office. So I think I'm just gonna sign and give it to her. And here's what I did last time, because they gave me a short notice. And I was leaving out of town, I was like, I can sign it, give it to my ex, so she can sign it and take it to her lawyer. But that's where we're at with it. It's, it's the last piece of the puzzle, it seems like it just wants to fucking drag on. But it bothered me that she thought that I was still trying to screw her financially. Which is funny, because it's not her fucking money really? Well, and the thing is, it's the 401 K's were so out of whack. No, I had a good amount, and she had a little bit. And so that that means I had to give mine away. And And for years, I can remember saying there Hey, did you set up your retirement? Yeah, you know, did you set that Oh, no HR, this an HR that and I don't have this form and that form and, and so because she fucking took forever, it created this pretty big imbalance in our retirement accounts. And that's why I have to give her money. It's, I don't think she deserves a fucking dime of it. But I'm not trying to it's a court order. I can't run from it. Like, I'm not trying to withhold the money, you can have the money. The fact that keep looking Wait, what can money to disappear, so I can figure out where's my baseline at, but hopefully, you know, knock on wood by, I don't know, January or some shit. It seems like it takes forever to he's gotta go. She's got to sign it, I got a son, it's got to go back to the judge, the judge signs off on it. And then they send it to fidelity. So it'll probably be and then fidelity seems to take their little fucking time. So it's probably going to be I don't know, two or three months before I have a final. Hopefully this was the final one and I have to deal with it. But it does suck that there's this. This thing that still sort of reminds you, you know, oh, yeah, you got divorced. You know what I mean? It doesn't bother me as much, but it's still it's one of those things that boy, I'd really like to get that fucking done and over with. Yeah, yeah. So well,

Unknown Speaker 1:02:01
if she presented you with a paper, would you just sign it?

Michael 1:02:05
Oh, yeah, I mean,

Speaker 2 1:02:06
I hate to give you the counterpoint again, brother. I can't help myself sometimes. But I don't trust my ex wife as far as I can throw her she's a tiny girl so I can throw her a little bit of a waste but not very far. And I would expect much the same in return. I wouldn't. Careful what you take on as your own burden. I don't trust my ex any more than you should trust your your ex and she should trust you right like it. Bullshit and lawyers. Good links are amazing. Bad lawyers are fucking leeches. I feel for the bullshit. But if I was divorcing you I wouldn't trust you either. You know, if I was divorced, yeah, I wouldn't trust you either.

Michael 1:02:44
I guess so. I mean, I guess it. Yeah, I guess I maybe hold held on to that. Like, I don't know. Just the, you know, you might not love me, but geez, maybe you can least respect me. And trust me, you know what I mean? Over a lawyer like him over me, it seems like you don't know that fucking guy. And not for nothing. But each time he fucks up. I hope he's not charging. But I suspect he is. But every time he fucks up, and there's also that cynical part of me. It's going well, she's getting my fucking $1,000 a month for child support. Anyway, so what the fuck that she cares? She has to pay a lawyer a little bit. You know what I mean? So it but I, why don't you want this done? Don't you want this done? I mean, I said to her let's we can figure out how to fill out this fucking form. I'm sure of it. Nope, I'm not I'm using my attorney. Okay. Fine, whatever. It's an important part of it. I mean, I don't know, it affects it probably doesn't affect older kids the same as younger kids. But like, it's important for sure. For younger kids to not bring dot bash the other party just it just doesn't help. It's not helpful. Because as Chris says, it's all the time, they intrinsically know. They're half you and half them. So if you're knocking the other half, that's half of them that you're knocking. And it doesn't it puts them in an awkward fucking position. So I don't I'm I think I'm pretty good at not doing that. Because I know that but I'm sure sometimes. I mean, I'm sure I slip up because sometimes it's hard. You know, sometimes, especially when

Jared 1:04:10
they catch you off guard. Yeah. Yeah, I fucked up once last year. I was camping with all my kids. And, you know, we're in my camper and my boy he looks at me and goes, Do you remember when mom and Luke used to sleep up there together all the time? Not just Yeah, that wasn't very good. I have a Muslim. And I felt like a piece of shit. But I just reacted because it caught me so off guard. No,

Michael 1:04:38
sometimes the truth is okay, just I mean, I don't think I mean, I didn't hear anything too bad and what you said honestly, I mean, I think that I think some people take it to the extreme and like, you know, your mother is you know, trying to take you from me or or you know, she's an evil person or you know, whatever it is that it can be, like not, not subtle. You know what I mean? Just over the top hit you over the head. was your mother's a piece of shit now? I feel that way sometimes. But I'll say that I don't.

Jared 1:05:05
I've had that from the other side that I'm sure of course, there was one time my four year old at the time wouldn't even look at me. Finally come talk to me. He's like, I was just told I'm supposed to hate you right now. See, that's

a yard. Yeah, that is not enjoy it. That

Michael 1:05:30
is child abuse. 100% 100 Fucking percent that, you know, that kid is going to have to bear that burden, you know, for forever, you know? And hopefully she doesn't do it doesn't go away. No, no. And hopefully she doesn't continue but I got a feeling she probably would. But the good thing is

Jared 1:05:48
my accent was her mom. Yeah, well still live together. Me and her mom had a very deep intimate conversation in the front yard. And she's very much a keeping up appearances type person. And she lives in suburbs. So I made sure to yell out to all the neighbors that her daughters will build those sales men to and they're probably getting delivered. Right door

Michael 1:06:17
oh, that is so funny. So funny deal does call your ex wife though. We're saying

Jared 1:06:26
yeah, sure. about buying one from her and giving her back to her so she can go fuck yourself hopefully coming cactus form.

Michael 1:06:42
Oh, that's good. Shit. Oh, well, I don't know. If we want to keep chatting or not, gents.

Jared 1:06:50
I'm happy either way.

Michael 1:06:51
I gotta I gotta think I'm gonna do one more shot. Is there any any topics that that we want to cover? For sure that like, you know, we really should talk about this stuff. That's, you know, I'm thinking about the guy who's just starting this shit show. Like we had a guy on earlier. Justin and Jared, you were here. Brian, you're here to for a little bit. David. You know, he's obviously in the in the thick of it. I wonder if there's anything that we can share with him that we probably I mean, we covered a good bit. But if there's any, any one solid piece of advice for that man, or for anyone that's just kind of starting this shit show.

Speaker 3 1:07:25
Just reach out for help. That's my suggestion. If you're if your ear hurting, you got questions. Look for somebody who's going through what you're going through.

Jared 1:07:36
Yep. And sometimes data time isn't enough. Sometimes. You do it an hour at a time you do it a minute time. There isn't a timeframe on it. It's fucking rough. But you'll get through it. Yeah, and go at your pace. Don't try and rush it. Don't get discouraged because somebody is further ahead in your eyes than where you're at. Because of the timeframe. timeframes are fucking bullshit. It's up to you where you're going to be?

Speaker 1 1:08:10
Yeah, Jared, I think that's a very valid point. And I that's what I told myself. For so long was one day at a time, but you're absolutely right. It's it's an hour at a time a minute at a time, you know, an issue an episode at a time. Yeah, you're right. And I guess my my advice for anybody would just be you know, focus on what you can do to keep your sanity keep yourself grounded in some sort of reality in normality. And just go with that.

Michael 1:08:49
Justin, my Canadian friend, any words of wisdom, you know,

Speaker 2 1:08:55
all of life is sort of one big airplane drill. You can't help a fucking person if you're passed out because you didn't get oxygen. So put on your own mask first. That's number one. Right? You need to be willing to help yourself if you're going to help those around you that depend on you because you're the ones you got to be there to help the kids you got to be there to help your family you gotta be are there to help your standard family. You know, as a circle gets wider, the burden of responsibility gets less. And somewhere that burden of responsibility crosses with the the threshold of appropriate selfishness. There are issues matters, people, et cetera. That's number one, you probably can't help it to begin with. And number two, even if you couldn't, it's not your fucking problem. So focus your attention on the matters that matter. You know, there's a great book called The Subtle Art of not giving a fuck it's actually not about not giving flux. It's about giving the right flux and and applying those flux where they count. So focus your energy into the things that you can do immediately to improve your situation. And it is minute by minute An hour by hour, there's going to be some hours that you're fucking useless. And that's okay, you still have worth, you still have value, you are still needed here completely wholly. But when the next hour comes around and you do have a bit more bandwidth, focus that into the first thing you can do to set yourself up for a better life. You know, I've talked a few times with with a number of different members. Start running things through a bit of a self check. As you're going through your day and making decisions as you go to make a decision say, hey, wait a minute. My name's Justin, it, is this decision I'm about to make? What decision would the person I'm trying to be make? The Justin that I want to be? Would that be the decision he would make? And sometimes the answer is going to be no. And that's okay, too. You got to love yourself, even in your broken forum, and you got to figure out how to deal with your broken self. But by running those day to day decisions through that little self check, is this a decision that the person I'm trying to be would make? It opens up doors massively, and it's in the moment, moment by moment, I think, so far too often in the self help circles. We all want a silver bullet, we all want a band aid, we all want a life that's together. And you know, I want a Harley and a blonde 20 year old and a mansion on the beach too. Like everybody wants that, you know, by by running all of these decisions through the moment by moment self check, is this a decision that will lead me towards the person I want to be? Or not? And am I okay with that decision? Just the momentary self check. It spurs action, you know, like it spurs action and time is powerful. But time is only powerful. If it's used. If you sit on your hands time's gonna get you nowhere. So, yeah. My short, sweet.

Michael 1:11:49
I love it. I mean, I agree with so many on all of that. I think one of the things that and I'll wrap up with this, and I'll do one more shot because I like whiskey.

Jared 1:12:00
And wrap up, I have a caveat on that as well. All

Michael 1:12:05
right. So I think you know, the device are there. The advice is, a lot of a lot of times you hear this, you know, just give it time, which I kind of hate that because I think that that gives you or us sometimes an excuse to, to not do anything and expect some kind of change. But and that's just not going to happen. It's just let's just be plain and fucking honest here. If you don't do nothing, nothing changes, right. But I do think there are moments and I wanted to say this to David earlier, but I forgot about it, or I didn't get to it or whatever. There are moments where that that question, right? You know, who do I want to be? What kind of actions would I take if I if I was that person or whatever, is great. And sometimes like you said the answer is is not going to line up with where you're at. And so sometimes no action is okay. Sometimes sitting on the couch and crying is okay, those dishes aren't going any fucking where if you can eat, you're fine. If you need to do one dish do one dish, but there are moments where sitting on the on the couch laying on the couch and crying and or fucking watching TED lasso. Whatever you want to do fucking do that. You don't always need to be pushing yourself, you do need to, but there are moments when you have you have to give yourself permission to just fucking exist in a in a relaxed and comfortable state. So that's all I got for me. I'm gonna let Jared finish up and I'm gonna do another shot because I can. Here's to all you gentlemen, all of you that are watching. There are a few watching all of you that listen all of you that are a part of the discord. I love you all. Thank you so much for being a part of this fucking journey.

Jared 1:13:46
I'm getting my shot. Cheers. Cheers. scoll Oh,

Unknown Speaker 1:13:53
look at you. Cheers.

Michael 1:13:57
Thanks. Gotcha. You wrap it up. You bring it home, my friend.

Jared 1:14:00
All right. So on Justin's earlier point, I am also going to quote Justin

Unknown Speaker 1:14:07
dangerous how stoned was my brother?

Jared 1:14:09
Oh, I don't know. We've had a lot of drunk and stoned conversations. So give yourself grace to. So voting Justin. But Justin then did he do the best that the Justin then knew how. But Justin now knows better. But you can't fault the old guy because he was doing what he could. Very true. And so make sure to give yourself grace. Don't be too hard on yourself. Yeah, we all thought up at some point. We have a hand in this. But give yourself grace and as well. Yeah.

Michael 1:14:49
Amen. All right, gentlemen. Thank you so much, Lonnie. Thanks for hanging out with us. Appreciate Lonnie says we're all awesome. I don't know about me, but these guys are awesome. I'll give you that. Thank you. Gentlemen, I appreciate you and I'm sure I'll see you guys next week in the meeting.

Jared 1:15:06
Sure, yeah. Well we got one yeah Well,

Michael 1:15:10
Happy Thanksgiving Yeah, that's right Jared will be in immediate will be in the meeting room tomorrow evening. I will have my children's so definitely won't be joining you. But if anyone is not in the discord you want to join Discord is $5 a month, send me a link or send me a message and get the link in the info. It's certainly fucking worth it. These guys contribute, I appreciate it. And the money goes towards the podcast for sure. And it's going to be needed especially the end of the year. I gotta renew zoom and otter which is a transcript service, so it's needed and appreciated. So thank you guys. Thank you so much for watching and or listening. Since my separation in July of 2019, I have done an incredible amount of work on myself. I've had many different therapists, life coaches and went through different programs. I've taken all that I've learned in print in my own program called forged by fire. If you are interested in having me help you navigate your divorce, please visit my website Rising Phoenix divorce coach.com. I look forward to working with you

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